Ex CIA official: Macedonia is right in defending its interests

Steven Meyer, former CIA deputy chief of the Balkan Task Force, in an interview with MIA says that the United States and the European Union are in a state of collapse and that Macedonia is doing the right thing by defending its interests in the integration process.

Meyer, who served in the Balkans in the 1990s, confirms the claims that Macedonia's leadership smuggled oil and other goods during the embargo against Serbia, this gaining huge profits.

Asked about the future of the Balkan region, he thinks that borders can be still amended, but sees no possibilities for the creation of great ethnic countries.

Mr. Meyer, what were the main Macedonian issues you had been working on during your tenure as CIA deputy chief of the Balkan Task Force?

Efforts mainly focused on preventing the war to spill into Macedonia, that was the main issue. Another one, circa 1999, involved the movement of refugees. This issue had to be tackled with all Balkan countries. And, of course, there were attempts for pressure to be exerted by the Clinton administration to prevent guns to be smuggled and delivered from Macedonia to Serbs. But it failed. The EU and US had never managed to control what was being smuggled from Macedonia really well. I still personally know many people in Serbia who had become rich by smuggling. We have had a continual interaction with the Macedonian government on the matter and I have spent some time in the country having talks with the Macedonian intelligence services. On their part, there was partially willingness for the country to survive economically, but privately they would say that smuggling provided an excellent source for incomes for them personally as well as for the country..

Recently, in Macedonia there was a case in which Serb businessman Ljubomir Peric-Magas has said on several occasions that during the embargo against Serbia he collaborated with Macedonia's leaders, namely with then premier Branko Crvenkovski and interior minister Ljubomir Frckoski.

Yes, it makes sense to me that Magas had given money to your authorities. I know the name, I know of him, even though I haven't met with him personally. Back then I know he was some kind of businessman. Without a doubt, Macedonian top officials were involved in smuggling deals, since it was a lucrative job. But they were not the only ones. It was done all over the Balkans. Everyone was involved in smuggling. Macedonia's top officials at the time wanted all options to be opened. No one knew how the war would end, no one knew whether borders would be changed. It was understandable for the Macedonian leadership to be willing to have their options open - to help the Serbs and at the same time to maintain an open dialogue with the US. In the 1990s, the leadership in Macedonia was one of the most sensible in the Balkans, it was perceived as such in Washington. We, Americans, were hypocritical on occasions. We backed Biljana Plavsic - for instance former state secretary (Madeleine) Albright wanted to support her campaign for president. We knew she was involved in smuggling, but kept our mouths shut. After she was tried following the war, we washed our hands of her.

Did Macedonia face any consequences from these activities?

The issue of corruption and oligarchs' monopoly of money certainly did not help Macedonia. Those smuggling operations did not benefit everybody. Corruption and smuggling will not disappear if you join NATO and EU. Ask the Bulgarians. It is better Macedonia to focus on its economy, social justice and social development.

But it is expected Balkan countries to exit the zone of smuggling after joining the EU and opening its borders.

Slipping by the customs will not be eliminated by becoming an EU member. Bulgarians too have so much problems with the Union, because they failed to tackle corruption and smuggling after joining the EU. There will always be smuggling and other hideous things, such as human trafficking. Those things didn't stop after being admitted into the EU, too much money is at stake especially in the Balkans - the outskirts of Europe.

Do you think that EU membership and Euro-Atlantic integration are not favourable for Balkan countries?

You have to understand that the United States is a power in decline. The European Union is a power in decline. But every time I talk to people from Balkan countries, I get the impression that they think the US and EU are pulling the strings, which is not the case.

Look at the EU - it is an organisation bursting at the seams. It is facing plenty of serious issues despite winning the Nobel Peace Prize as a recognition of its past. The organisation is not sure about its future, whether its wants enlargement or not. Maybe Croatia will finally join the EU in 2013, but Serbia and Macedonia will have to wait a long time. I tell my friends in the Balkans that the new criteria conditioning their countries for EU membership are a way to keep them outside the Union. The case with NATO is very similar - what is NATO providing to Macedonia other than having the honor to be with American forces in countries like Afghanistan and die there? For a country like Macedonia, in my opinion, it is far more important to focus on building the economy, the society, on relations between Macedonians and Albanians, rather than saying we will be safer in EU and NATO.

However, in Macedonia there is overwhelming social consensus for EU and NATO integration, even thought it is hindered by Greece's veto? 

I think that Macedonia approaches the EU in an intelligent manner. EU needs to see whether it can make Greece to reach some kind of reasonable solution to the name issue, for which I think Greece is to blame, not Macedonia. At the same time, you have to think carefully what kind of relationship do you want with the Union, because by becoming a full-fledged member, you inherit all of its issues. I've recommended several Balkan leaders to follow the model of Ukraine - the country has reached several deals with the EU, but it doesn't want to be a full-fledged member. Macedonia has also signed many treaties, the Serbs too.

The Balkan countries have always been controlled by others and many Balkan leaders are afraid to take over control. It is far more easy and more comfortable to listen to others than to design your future by yourself.

Do you think it is necessary Balkan countries to change their approach toward the EU?

The Balkans' way of perceiving the EU is so old, its mythological. It is assumed that there should be cooperation either with the EU or with Russia, either with the EU or with Iran. This is not true. You need to look everywhere, towards Russia and Iran, towards China. In today's world, you do not need only one focus. In fact, for a small state it is better to have a wider focus. You are already enjoying some of the benefits coming with EU membership. But once you become a full-fledged member and part of the eurozone, you will have to deal with the issue of bailing Greece out.

I think Macedonia needs to ask itself what would it achieve by becoming a member, would it be more secure. I believe the answer isn't automatically yes. A year ago, I met with PM (Sali) Berisha in Albania. The country maintains the same mindset since communism - we are weak, poor and we must do what we are told. I do not understand this attitude in the modern world. There is a tendency among many Balkan politicians to think about the past instead of thinking about 2012 or 2013. When you have a world leading towards globalisation and when Europe is facing its own economic issues, I would say that Balkan economies with lower living standards have a better chance to ask for support from countries such as China, Japan, Iran, Brazil and from US and EU as well.

You are known among Balkan experts as someone who talks about amending borders. What is your opinion about this claim?

Borders on the Balkans are an open issue. (US Secretary of State) Clinton has recently said in Serbia that borders will not be changed and there won't be partitions. Depending on the negotiations about Kosovo, I believe its partition is still a reality - the northern part of Kosovo will be annexed to Serbia and two municipalities from southern Serbia will become part of Kosovo. In BiH, there is also a chance for borders to be amended, because the Republic of Srpska is functioning as an independent state. In the meantime, borders were changed after Montenegro declared independence and Croats and Slovenians solved their border issue in some way. When Pristina declared independence, it was also a case of changing the borders as well as with Macedonia's independence declaration. It is possible borders to be amended, but it has to happen in line with an agreement.

We are having this interview in the wake of the comments by Albanian PM Sali Berisha talking about Albanian nation. It triggered reactions, including from Macedonia as well.

There is a situation in western Macedonia, however the country functions. Albanian leaders want the Ohrid Agreement to be implemented. Macedonian and Albanian leaders must talk honestly. When Sali Berisha is speaking about an Albanian nation, I don't think that many Macedonian Albanians would like to be part of that kind of Albania. Kosovo Albanians also don't want to be part of Albania. But, this needs to be settled by the Macedonian government and albanian leaders in Macedonia.

Personally, I don't think it is possible to create a great Albania or great Serbia. When it comes to changing the borders, I believe there won't be major changes in the Balkans. I see Macedonia as a country facing many issues. Everyone wanted a piece of Macedonia - Bulgaria believed that Macedonia is western Bulgaria, Albanians wanted a piece of Macedonia and Serbia did the same in the past. However, Macedonia is a country that behaves in a responsible manner.// C Cilimanov (MIA)