Who are the Greeks - a Macedonian Perspective
Risto Stefov
January 16, 2011
Some of you have asked me to write about the Modern Greeks and what they really think of themselves and their neighbours; a subject which I have often touched on but have never fully delved into.
I would have to say that, as a general rule, it is none of my business to gossip about people unless of course they give me reason to. Believe me the Greeks have given me plenty of reasons to not only to analyze them forwards and backwards without feeling guilty, but to talk about them as I see fit. In fact I would go as far as saying, "It is imperative to know thy Greeks as seen through the eyes of at least one Macedonian!"
Like every other people in the world, typical Greeks fall into a number of categories; but the only categories of interest to me are those who interfere in the affairs of the Macedonian people. These Greeks fall into two distinct categories, the clueless and the ones leading the clueless.
I used to think that every Greek out there knew the truth, especially about themselves, and "stood their ground" because of "self interest and self preservation". But with time I have discovered that it is not always the case. Yes it is true that there are many Greeks who know their own true narrative but because of "self interest" have chosen to defend their mythical narrative; an alternate reality which puts them at an advantage over others, but which unfortunately comes into collision with the Macedonian narrative.
In order for these Greeks to convince themselves that what they are doing is right they need to convince the rest of the Greeks to follow them in their quest. For example there are many Greeks today who know they are not Greeks of the type that are direct descendants from the ancient Greeks from 2,600 years ago, but are more like Greeks by circumstance who became Greeks by force when they were brought to Greece from Asia Minor or from the Caucasus to colonize Macedonia. Or they were Albanians or Vlachs gripped by the chokehold of 19th century nationalism which turned them into Greeks. In any case, it is irrelevant how these people became Greeks, but the fact that they are in an ideal position in Greek society today gives them ample reasons to defend their "assumed" position by defending the status quo i.e. that they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Greeks or more lately, they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Macedonians.
And of course they have their followers, the clueless Greeks who believe everything they tell them. How does one recognize a clueless Greek? By the way they react to new information.
Just recently I received the following "typical" e-mail from a Greek:
WRITING THESE ARTICLES PROVES YOU ARE INFERIOR, YOU CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING ELSE YOUR JUST DOWN A BARBARION WHO IS DAMN JEALOUS LOL
TO RSTEFOV@GMAIL
THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THE TRUTH, BUT WHO EVER HATES THE GREEKS TRIES TO STEAL HISTORY OR DENIE THE TRUTH OR TRIES TO OFFEND THEM ALL ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT FOOLS. THE TRUTH SHALL BE REVEALED, IT CANNOT HIDE FOR LONG NO MATTER HOW ONE TRIES TO CHANGE THINGS AROUND.
WE HAVE THE PROOF ALL OVER THE WORLD. ENVIOUS PEOPLE WILL TRY TO SHUT PEOPLE'S MOUTHS, BUT THE ROCKS TALK LOUDER IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS, THEN YOUR PROVING YOU ARE A BARBARIAN WHO CANNOT READ!!!!! SO IF YOUR PEOPLE CANNOT READ AND UNDERSTAND BETWEEN THE LINES THEY PROVE THEY ARE JUST BABBARIANS WITHOUT US GREEKS ARGUING WITH THEM!!!!!
THEY ARE SO JEALOUS, THEY HAVE TO MAKE UP THESE TYPE OF ARTICLES. THEY ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW THAT IS WHY THEY ENVY US. THEY KNOW THEY ARE INFERIOR
Well, where do I begin?
To some degree we are all drones and believe what we are taught or told by the authorities. Why else did we all believe at one point in time that the earth was flat? Yes it is true; the entire world at one point in time knew for a fact that the earth was flat! It knew the truth about the earth being flat just like the entire world today knows the truth about the Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks!
It was okay to make such claims when there was no evidence to show different. But what about after it had been discovered that the earth was not flat? How should people have reacted? Should they have continued to believe the earth was flat in spite of the evidence showing that it wasn´t?
Similarly, when no one opposed the "Greek claim" that "Macedonians do not exist" it was believed to be true! More recently however it was proven that "Macedonians do exist", I am a living example of that. No only do they exist all over the world but Macedonians today have their own country! So what is "the truth" in this case? Do Macedonians exist, as the evidence points out, or do they NOT exist as Greeks like to claim?
How about examining the Greek claim that the "Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks". What evidence have the Modern Greeks presented to prove this claim? More importantly, what evidence have the Greeks neglected in an attempt to prove this claim? When one examines all "the facts" it is easy to find the truth. It is a far fetched claim to insist that "the Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks" when evidence points to "the Modern Greeks being the descendents of the 19th century Albanians, Vlachs and of the 20th century Macedonians".
There is far more evidence that points to the modern Greeks being the descendents of the Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians than there is that points to the Modern Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks of 2,600 years ago. I am not saying this because I hate the Greeks and because I am jealous of them. I am saying this because evidence points in that direction!
But again there are many, many clueless Greeks out there who insist that "this is all wrong" and only the enemies of the Greeks would make such absurd claims and that there is some sort of "information" out there that when it comes out will prove that things are different!
Unfortunately, for the clueless Greeks, there is no "such", "more" or "other" information out there that will justify the lies perpetrated by Greek authorities over the last 200 years. If anything does come out it will be more lies to cover up previous lies or to "disclaim" newly uncovered information. A good example of this is Greece´s stand on the Macedonian question claiming that "Macedonians do not exist". When the Republic of Macedonia was about to emerge, all of a sudden all sorts of Macedonians were living in Greece! Even the imported Christian Turkish colonists settled in Greek occupied Macedonia in the 1920´s overnight became "Macedonians" and on top of that, they claimed to be the "descendents of the ancient Macedonians from 2,300 years ago! All this by magic no less! And after decades of saying that "Macedonians do not exist", what reason did the Greeks have to "invent" these "new" Macedonians of the Greek kind? I will leave this one for you to figure out!
If these clueless Greeks care to open their eyes they will find the truth, not in any books or in my articles but on the very land they today call Greece. Examine the people from generations back, before Greece became a country for the first time in 1829, and see what language they spoke, what customs and traditions they followed, etc. Look at the geographical names of the land, the villages, towns, cities, lakes, rivers, regions and see what they were called before Greece changed them. If all these people were Greeks, descendants from the ancient Greeks and all these lands were Greek then what reason did the Greek authorities to have to change them? What about the people living in Greece who today speak "Arvanitika", "Vlahika" and "Makethonika", are they also descendents of the ancient Greeks? How did they come about to speak those languages if all Greeks of all generations were Greek since 2,600 ago? Are those languages dialects of the ancient Greeks?
I know some people will argue that language has little to do with descent but then again how did those languages appear in a region where they don´t belong, in a region, which according to Modern Greeks, has always been Greek, where the Greek language has always been spoken? If Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks then they must have always been Greeks and spoke the Greek language without interruption.
Aside from that it is well known that throughout history, since Philip II´s time, the entire Balkans existed borderless until the 1800´s and were invaded and occupied by at least the Ancient Macedonians, the Romans, the Byzantines and the Ottomans for no less 2,300 years. What happened to the "purity" of the Greek race during that time?
What about the number of times over the years that Greece, particularly the Peloponnesus, the heart of Greece, was settled by Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Latins and so on? What happened to these people? Were they "Hellenized"? And if they were, how does that make them "the descendents of the ancient Greeks"?
And then we have the 20th century 1,000,000 Christian Turkish colonists who were brought to Greece from Asia Minor and the Caucasus, where they Greeks too, descendents from the ancient Greeks?
I think there is a huge gap, the size of the Grand Canyon, between what the "truth" is and what the Greeks claim "the truth" to be. This is particularly true in the "Greek thinking" between their claim that "Macedonians do not exist" and their claim that they themselves are "the descendants from the ancient Greeks".
Instead of thinking that there is some sort of conspiracy on my part and on the part of people like myself, why not examine the evidence for yourselves and reach your own conclusion about what is "truth" and what is "myth"! If you really think that you are the "superior" people you claim to be, surely then you should be able to separate fact from fiction and discover the truth for yourselves! And please don´t forget to tell me what it is!
Other articles by Risto Stefov:
http://www.maknews.com/html/articles.html#stefov
http://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3446
Free electronic books by Risto Stefov available at:
http://makedonskakafana.com/risto_stefov_ebooks.html
Our Name is Macedonia
www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia
You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
January 16, 2011
Some of you have asked me to write about the Modern Greeks and what they really think of themselves and their neighbours; a subject which I have often touched on but have never fully delved into.
I would have to say that, as a general rule, it is none of my business to gossip about people unless of course they give me reason to. Believe me the Greeks have given me plenty of reasons to not only to analyze them forwards and backwards without feeling guilty, but to talk about them as I see fit. In fact I would go as far as saying, "It is imperative to know thy Greeks as seen through the eyes of at least one Macedonian!"
Like every other people in the world, typical Greeks fall into a number of categories; but the only categories of interest to me are those who interfere in the affairs of the Macedonian people. These Greeks fall into two distinct categories, the clueless and the ones leading the clueless.
I used to think that every Greek out there knew the truth, especially about themselves, and "stood their ground" because of "self interest and self preservation". But with time I have discovered that it is not always the case. Yes it is true that there are many Greeks who know their own true narrative but because of "self interest" have chosen to defend their mythical narrative; an alternate reality which puts them at an advantage over others, but which unfortunately comes into collision with the Macedonian narrative.
In order for these Greeks to convince themselves that what they are doing is right they need to convince the rest of the Greeks to follow them in their quest. For example there are many Greeks today who know they are not Greeks of the type that are direct descendants from the ancient Greeks from 2,600 years ago, but are more like Greeks by circumstance who became Greeks by force when they were brought to Greece from Asia Minor or from the Caucasus to colonize Macedonia. Or they were Albanians or Vlachs gripped by the chokehold of 19th century nationalism which turned them into Greeks. In any case, it is irrelevant how these people became Greeks, but the fact that they are in an ideal position in Greek society today gives them ample reasons to defend their "assumed" position by defending the status quo i.e. that they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Greeks or more lately, they are Greeks who descended from the ancient Macedonians.
And of course they have their followers, the clueless Greeks who believe everything they tell them. How does one recognize a clueless Greek? By the way they react to new information.
Just recently I received the following "typical" e-mail from a Greek:
WRITING THESE ARTICLES PROVES YOU ARE INFERIOR, YOU CAN'T COME UP WITH ANYTHING ELSE YOUR JUST DOWN A BARBARION WHO IS DAMN JEALOUS LOL
TO RSTEFOV@GMAIL
THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THE TRUTH, BUT WHO EVER HATES THE GREEKS TRIES TO STEAL HISTORY OR DENIE THE TRUTH OR TRIES TO OFFEND THEM ALL ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT FOOLS. THE TRUTH SHALL BE REVEALED, IT CANNOT HIDE FOR LONG NO MATTER HOW ONE TRIES TO CHANGE THINGS AROUND.
WE HAVE THE PROOF ALL OVER THE WORLD. ENVIOUS PEOPLE WILL TRY TO SHUT PEOPLE'S MOUTHS, BUT THE ROCKS TALK LOUDER IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS, THEN YOUR PROVING YOU ARE A BARBARIAN WHO CANNOT READ!!!!! SO IF YOUR PEOPLE CANNOT READ AND UNDERSTAND BETWEEN THE LINES THEY PROVE THEY ARE JUST BABBARIANS WITHOUT US GREEKS ARGUING WITH THEM!!!!!
THEY ARE SO JEALOUS, THEY HAVE TO MAKE UP THESE TYPE OF ARTICLES. THEY ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW THAT IS WHY THEY ENVY US. THEY KNOW THEY ARE INFERIOR
Well, where do I begin?
To some degree we are all drones and believe what we are taught or told by the authorities. Why else did we all believe at one point in time that the earth was flat? Yes it is true; the entire world at one point in time knew for a fact that the earth was flat! It knew the truth about the earth being flat just like the entire world today knows the truth about the Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks!
It was okay to make such claims when there was no evidence to show different. But what about after it had been discovered that the earth was not flat? How should people have reacted? Should they have continued to believe the earth was flat in spite of the evidence showing that it wasn´t?
Similarly, when no one opposed the "Greek claim" that "Macedonians do not exist" it was believed to be true! More recently however it was proven that "Macedonians do exist", I am a living example of that. No only do they exist all over the world but Macedonians today have their own country! So what is "the truth" in this case? Do Macedonians exist, as the evidence points out, or do they NOT exist as Greeks like to claim?
How about examining the Greek claim that the "Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks". What evidence have the Modern Greeks presented to prove this claim? More importantly, what evidence have the Greeks neglected in an attempt to prove this claim? When one examines all "the facts" it is easy to find the truth. It is a far fetched claim to insist that "the Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks" when evidence points to "the Modern Greeks being the descendents of the 19th century Albanians, Vlachs and of the 20th century Macedonians".
There is far more evidence that points to the modern Greeks being the descendents of the Albanians, Vlachs and Macedonians than there is that points to the Modern Greeks being the descendants of the ancient Greeks of 2,600 years ago. I am not saying this because I hate the Greeks and because I am jealous of them. I am saying this because evidence points in that direction!
But again there are many, many clueless Greeks out there who insist that "this is all wrong" and only the enemies of the Greeks would make such absurd claims and that there is some sort of "information" out there that when it comes out will prove that things are different!
Unfortunately, for the clueless Greeks, there is no "such", "more" or "other" information out there that will justify the lies perpetrated by Greek authorities over the last 200 years. If anything does come out it will be more lies to cover up previous lies or to "disclaim" newly uncovered information. A good example of this is Greece´s stand on the Macedonian question claiming that "Macedonians do not exist". When the Republic of Macedonia was about to emerge, all of a sudden all sorts of Macedonians were living in Greece! Even the imported Christian Turkish colonists settled in Greek occupied Macedonia in the 1920´s overnight became "Macedonians" and on top of that, they claimed to be the "descendents of the ancient Macedonians from 2,300 years ago! All this by magic no less! And after decades of saying that "Macedonians do not exist", what reason did the Greeks have to "invent" these "new" Macedonians of the Greek kind? I will leave this one for you to figure out!
If these clueless Greeks care to open their eyes they will find the truth, not in any books or in my articles but on the very land they today call Greece. Examine the people from generations back, before Greece became a country for the first time in 1829, and see what language they spoke, what customs and traditions they followed, etc. Look at the geographical names of the land, the villages, towns, cities, lakes, rivers, regions and see what they were called before Greece changed them. If all these people were Greeks, descendants from the ancient Greeks and all these lands were Greek then what reason did the Greek authorities to have to change them? What about the people living in Greece who today speak "Arvanitika", "Vlahika" and "Makethonika", are they also descendents of the ancient Greeks? How did they come about to speak those languages if all Greeks of all generations were Greek since 2,600 ago? Are those languages dialects of the ancient Greeks?
I know some people will argue that language has little to do with descent but then again how did those languages appear in a region where they don´t belong, in a region, which according to Modern Greeks, has always been Greek, where the Greek language has always been spoken? If Modern Greeks are the descendents of the ancient Greeks then they must have always been Greeks and spoke the Greek language without interruption.
Aside from that it is well known that throughout history, since Philip II´s time, the entire Balkans existed borderless until the 1800´s and were invaded and occupied by at least the Ancient Macedonians, the Romans, the Byzantines and the Ottomans for no less 2,300 years. What happened to the "purity" of the Greek race during that time?
What about the number of times over the years that Greece, particularly the Peloponnesus, the heart of Greece, was settled by Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Latins and so on? What happened to these people? Were they "Hellenized"? And if they were, how does that make them "the descendents of the ancient Greeks"?
And then we have the 20th century 1,000,000 Christian Turkish colonists who were brought to Greece from Asia Minor and the Caucasus, where they Greeks too, descendents from the ancient Greeks?
I think there is a huge gap, the size of the Grand Canyon, between what the "truth" is and what the Greeks claim "the truth" to be. This is particularly true in the "Greek thinking" between their claim that "Macedonians do not exist" and their claim that they themselves are "the descendants from the ancient Greeks".
Instead of thinking that there is some sort of conspiracy on my part and on the part of people like myself, why not examine the evidence for yourselves and reach your own conclusion about what is "truth" and what is "myth"! If you really think that you are the "superior" people you claim to be, surely then you should be able to separate fact from fiction and discover the truth for yourselves! And please don´t forget to tell me what it is!
Other articles by Risto Stefov:
http://www.maknews.com/html/articles.html#stefov
http://www.americanchronicle.com/authors/view/3446
Free electronic books by Risto Stefov available at:
http://makedonskakafana.com/risto_stefov_ebooks.html
Our Name is Macedonia
www.mhrmi.org/our_name_is_macedonia
You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
