Gruevski: I wish a name solution with Greece to be found
Skopje, 18 January 2011 (MIA) - On Tuesday, the Macedonian Information Agency (MIA) releases the sixth and final part of its mega interview with Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, in which he talks about the relations with neighbouring Greece and the dispute imposed by Greece regarding Macedonia's name and identity...
You're accused of trying to change the strategy and focus towards the East... Is Macedonia heading the opposite way from the Euro-Atlantic direction?
I have heard many such accusations and they are all groundless. Clearly, our main goal is EU and NATO membership. If we change our direction, we will elaborate the reason why. But, how can we be accused of allegedly not heading west, when laws, required by EU, are adopted that create some kind of implications, for example citizens offer resistance because by definition, changes trigger resistance. EU has on two occasions stated that Macedonia implemented laws necessary for membership and that we are ready for start of negotiations. How can this be defined as focusing towards the west? On the other hand, how can we not be aiming at NATO membership, when our troops are deployed at peacekeeping missions in Afghanistan, Iraq and in combat groups with Germany and Austria and several other European countries? It has been clearly said that Macedonia fulfilled all the necessary reforms for NATO accession. Furthermore, there's nothing disputable in maintaining contacts with other countries that are not members of NATO and EU. Even some EU-NATO countries are racing to establish as many contacts as possible with countries of the third world. In establishing cooperation with some of them, I see an opportunity our companies and products to be promoted abroad, I see a promotion of our national and state interest. However, the principal political course is the western alliance.
Let's get back to the name issue - a fresh round of talks has been scheduled in New York. So far, you have met with the Greek PM (George Papandreou) eight times in one year; FM (Antonio) Milososki has also had several meetings with his Greek counterpart (Dimitrios Droutsas). President Gjorge Ivanov was also engaged in this process. What are the expectations with regard to this matter in 2011?
We wish a name solution to be found. Despite the consequences of the global economic crisis, this is the second biggest problem we are facing. The issue is not new; it is almost dates backs to the early days of our independence. Former, governments, premiers, presidents and ministers of foreign affairs have failed in solving the dispute.
Whenever I hold talks at home or abroad, I make utmost efforts in order a mutually acceptable solution to be found. Maybe, none of this would have happened if Branko Crvenkovski hadn't given an interview for Greek newspaper "Kathimerini" sometime in the fall 2007 in which he had said that Macedonia, if necessary, was prepared to be admitted to NATO with the interim name. This statement has changed the strategy of Greece overnight. Afterwards, they promoted a new stance - no NATO membership without a solution "erga omnes" with geographical determinant, which also implies the Constitution to be amended. This is Greece's official position nowadays. The statement given by Crvenkovski has cost us a lot.
Is Greece showing willingness to settle the dispute?
My impression is that Greece feels no pressure at all to solve the name row, thus the country is neither worried at all nor motivated to make a compromise. The current financial crisis in Greece has caused EU countries to be more careful towards Greece, because the country's economic issues also create political repercussions. On the other hand, the current Greek leadership has been successfully selling the story for almost a year that it is very interested in a swift solution and that a progress is being made.
Was any progress made?
Thus far, there's progress in terms of improving relations and holding frequent talks. So, yes, there is progress with regard to the form and this shouldn't be underestimated. But, at the same time this is not enough in an effort the issue to be settled. I believe that Greece for now is not prepared to make a compromise. 20 years since our independence, one year since the start of frequent meetings, our interlocutors still face a serious obstacle to accept that Macedonians live in this country who speak Macedonian. They are not even trying to hide this fact.
What is your opinion on (DUI leader) Ali Ahmeti's statement that US officials should be engaged in order the row to be settled?
The United States has been engaged, sometimes more actively sometimes less, since the start of the dispute to facilitate the process of finding a solution. Probably, Ahmeti thinks that the US should strengthen their role. I have said on many occasions that any assistance is welcomed.
Were there periods when you were more hopeful that a swift solution was imminent?
Yes, there was. Last spring and summer I believed in Greece's conviction and at moments I was quite hopeful. Even I started to believe that it finally reached a decision to solve the issue. Unfortunately, sometime in September 2010, FM (Dimitrios) Drutsas once again reiterated the most radical positions of his country. Then my hope fell flat.
What is the role of UN mediator Matthew Nimetz in the process?
He makes utmost efforts. I think the name row is his most difficult task in his career as a diplomat. At times he seems disappointed and at times he is also hopeful. He refuses to give up and makes additional efforts, as same as us.
A new meeting with countries' name negotiators has been announced on Feb.9. Do you expect headway to be made?
Judging from past experiences, I shouldn't expect progress to be made. However, I always try to believe that things are changing; I start new activities with optimism and fresh energy.
Is there unity in state's leadership?
Yes. Country's top officials have never been so united with respect to the name issue and other major matters.
It is being rumoured that this year you are determined to solve the issue, that you have finally realised that there is no way out?
Since the beginning I wish a compromise to be found that would be acceptable for the citizens and that would be endorsed at a referendum. Understandably, it should be also acceptable for Greece. I hope this year the other party will show more real will to settle the dispute. It would not only unblock our EU and NATO integration processes, but it would pave the way for closer cooperation between both countries.
Will you present a proposal at the next meeting?
We are constantly exchanging ideas at meetings with the mediator. The problem is the will of the other party to take a small risk, to explain to its citizens that their neighbour is not their enemy and that everyone has the right to be called the way it wants to be called and to establish its own identity. Until different policies are run at home and in Europe, there will be no progress.
Were you under pressure to accept a solution in 2010?
Yes, there was a period when huge pressure was exerted, perhaps the biggest thus far. But, it is in the past; I wouldn't want to get back to that.
Why don't you hold more frequent meetings with Branko Crvenkovski?
I met him to discuss this issue many times in the past 4,5 years. But, instead to meet the goal of unity, they always ended with an intrigue that ruined mutual trust. Nevertheless, I won't yield. Whenever I feel that his inclusion might be helpful, then I'll meet with him.
You're accused of trying to change the strategy and focus towards the East... Is Macedonia heading the opposite way from the Euro-Atlantic direction?
I have heard many such accusations and they are all groundless. Clearly, our main goal is EU and NATO membership. If we change our direction, we will elaborate the reason why. But, how can we be accused of allegedly not heading west, when laws, required by EU, are adopted that create some kind of implications, for example citizens offer resistance because by definition, changes trigger resistance. EU has on two occasions stated that Macedonia implemented laws necessary for membership and that we are ready for start of negotiations. How can this be defined as focusing towards the west? On the other hand, how can we not be aiming at NATO membership, when our troops are deployed at peacekeeping missions in Afghanistan, Iraq and in combat groups with Germany and Austria and several other European countries? It has been clearly said that Macedonia fulfilled all the necessary reforms for NATO accession. Furthermore, there's nothing disputable in maintaining contacts with other countries that are not members of NATO and EU. Even some EU-NATO countries are racing to establish as many contacts as possible with countries of the third world. In establishing cooperation with some of them, I see an opportunity our companies and products to be promoted abroad, I see a promotion of our national and state interest. However, the principal political course is the western alliance.
Let's get back to the name issue - a fresh round of talks has been scheduled in New York. So far, you have met with the Greek PM (George Papandreou) eight times in one year; FM (Antonio) Milososki has also had several meetings with his Greek counterpart (Dimitrios Droutsas). President Gjorge Ivanov was also engaged in this process. What are the expectations with regard to this matter in 2011?
We wish a name solution to be found. Despite the consequences of the global economic crisis, this is the second biggest problem we are facing. The issue is not new; it is almost dates backs to the early days of our independence. Former, governments, premiers, presidents and ministers of foreign affairs have failed in solving the dispute.
Whenever I hold talks at home or abroad, I make utmost efforts in order a mutually acceptable solution to be found. Maybe, none of this would have happened if Branko Crvenkovski hadn't given an interview for Greek newspaper "Kathimerini" sometime in the fall 2007 in which he had said that Macedonia, if necessary, was prepared to be admitted to NATO with the interim name. This statement has changed the strategy of Greece overnight. Afterwards, they promoted a new stance - no NATO membership without a solution "erga omnes" with geographical determinant, which also implies the Constitution to be amended. This is Greece's official position nowadays. The statement given by Crvenkovski has cost us a lot.
Is Greece showing willingness to settle the dispute?
My impression is that Greece feels no pressure at all to solve the name row, thus the country is neither worried at all nor motivated to make a compromise. The current financial crisis in Greece has caused EU countries to be more careful towards Greece, because the country's economic issues also create political repercussions. On the other hand, the current Greek leadership has been successfully selling the story for almost a year that it is very interested in a swift solution and that a progress is being made.
Was any progress made?
Thus far, there's progress in terms of improving relations and holding frequent talks. So, yes, there is progress with regard to the form and this shouldn't be underestimated. But, at the same time this is not enough in an effort the issue to be settled. I believe that Greece for now is not prepared to make a compromise. 20 years since our independence, one year since the start of frequent meetings, our interlocutors still face a serious obstacle to accept that Macedonians live in this country who speak Macedonian. They are not even trying to hide this fact.
What is your opinion on (DUI leader) Ali Ahmeti's statement that US officials should be engaged in order the row to be settled?
The United States has been engaged, sometimes more actively sometimes less, since the start of the dispute to facilitate the process of finding a solution. Probably, Ahmeti thinks that the US should strengthen their role. I have said on many occasions that any assistance is welcomed.
Were there periods when you were more hopeful that a swift solution was imminent?
Yes, there was. Last spring and summer I believed in Greece's conviction and at moments I was quite hopeful. Even I started to believe that it finally reached a decision to solve the issue. Unfortunately, sometime in September 2010, FM (Dimitrios) Drutsas once again reiterated the most radical positions of his country. Then my hope fell flat.
What is the role of UN mediator Matthew Nimetz in the process?
He makes utmost efforts. I think the name row is his most difficult task in his career as a diplomat. At times he seems disappointed and at times he is also hopeful. He refuses to give up and makes additional efforts, as same as us.
A new meeting with countries' name negotiators has been announced on Feb.9. Do you expect headway to be made?
Judging from past experiences, I shouldn't expect progress to be made. However, I always try to believe that things are changing; I start new activities with optimism and fresh energy.
Is there unity in state's leadership?
Yes. Country's top officials have never been so united with respect to the name issue and other major matters.
It is being rumoured that this year you are determined to solve the issue, that you have finally realised that there is no way out?
Since the beginning I wish a compromise to be found that would be acceptable for the citizens and that would be endorsed at a referendum. Understandably, it should be also acceptable for Greece. I hope this year the other party will show more real will to settle the dispute. It would not only unblock our EU and NATO integration processes, but it would pave the way for closer cooperation between both countries.
Will you present a proposal at the next meeting?
We are constantly exchanging ideas at meetings with the mediator. The problem is the will of the other party to take a small risk, to explain to its citizens that their neighbour is not their enemy and that everyone has the right to be called the way it wants to be called and to establish its own identity. Until different policies are run at home and in Europe, there will be no progress.
Were you under pressure to accept a solution in 2010?
Yes, there was a period when huge pressure was exerted, perhaps the biggest thus far. But, it is in the past; I wouldn't want to get back to that.
Why don't you hold more frequent meetings with Branko Crvenkovski?
I met him to discuss this issue many times in the past 4,5 years. But, instead to meet the goal of unity, they always ended with an intrigue that ruined mutual trust. Nevertheless, I won't yield. Whenever I feel that his inclusion might be helpful, then I'll meet with him.
